Ajax Strike

Erik (Zelaponeepus) had an opening to play a game and was going to be near me after running some errands, so we shoehorned a game into our weekend. He requested the airplane table, so that’s what he got! I was planning on playing Steel Phalanx anyway, so no metagaming here!

For those of you unfamiliar with the airplane table, all the MDF bases that the trees and airplane parts are on denote low-vis, saturation, difficult terrain zones. The trees are conical solids that extend all the way to their bases (no shooting under the branches), and they are actual terrain pieces, not just markers for area terrain. It is a fantastically punishing table as it limits movement with all the difficult terrain, makes link teams less effective in ARO due to saturation, and changes a lot of math due to the low-vis zones. It requires a lot of experience to play on it well and is a bit of a litmus test to see if you’re used to and prepared to play with terrain.

It’s absolutely my favorite table I own, although I can’t claim credit for making it–that rests squarely on Adam (TheDiceAbide)’s shoulders. He did a fantastic job with the table. I just own and store it.

Overview

  • Mission: Supplies
  • Forces: Steel Phalanx versus White Banner
  • Deploy First: Steel Phalanx
  • First Turn: Ajax

I’ve been really enjoying Hector as my Lieutenant in my last few games, so I decided to stick with the trend. This time I decided to add in even more orders with Acmon’s tac aware order. We had decided to play either Supplies or Frontline, both of which have a fair number of classifieds in ITS13. I made some changes to the lists I’ve been running to add in Phoenix and some more specialists. I had to “downgrade” TR Atalanta to a Agema missile launcher, but all of that let me fit in two Enomotarchos links (one with an optional Ajax). I even fit in a Lamdeh instead of Netrods! With Ajax and Acmon, this is a 14 order list. Pretty wild.

Uhm. Sure?

HECTOR (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser, Grenades ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Heavy Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 69)
ACMON Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
THORAKITES (Paramedic, 360º Visor) Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
THORAKITES Feuerbach, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 23)

AGÊMA Marksman Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 30)
AJAX (Forward Deployment [+8″]) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / AP Heavy Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 46)

PHOENIX Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / DA CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (1.5 | 35)
MYRMIDON (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades ( ) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0.5 | 29)
MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 16)

LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)


10 1 1 | 5 SWC | 300 Points | Open in Infinity Army

Erik has been exploring White Banner and its ability to execute on the midfield repeater + missile bot plan. He spammed a little too hard on the Guilang Minelayers, I think, but with a Zhanshi core bolstered by Shang Jesus he’ll be okay. The Lu Duan is even more repeater coverage, which is a bit nuts. Some Shaolin round out the list.

Rose city v2
GROUP 1 8

GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
GŬILÁNG (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Shock Mines ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 30)
CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24)
SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16)
LÓNG YÁ Panzerfaust(+1B), Flammenspeer(+1B), Submachine Gun, AP Mines / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 16)

GROUP 2 5 3 2

SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Chain-colt ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 49)
TIAN GǑU 1st Section (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)

SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)


6 SWC | 299 Points | Open in Infinity Army

I think he could’ve easily swapped in a Guilang FO instead of the third Minelayer, especially with the Lu Duan. The Long Ya was a nice touch though.

Deployment

He won the rolloff and elected to choose side. I will point out that he waffled for a bit and considered taking first turn, but then decided against it because he really liked one side of the table. I happily accepted this turn of events, and held both Ajax and the Agema in reserve. I wasn’t sure what threats Erik was bringing so I deployed my Hector/Acmon/Thorakites link on the left, leaving only the Feuerbach out to ARO. Phoenix and his friends all started out of LoF in the middle–I figured I wanted the ability to prone crawl around in case Erik brought a Guilang MSR or something, and then I put the Lamdeh down in the back, covering the back table edge for Tiger Soldiers.

My thought was to just let Erik pull boxes and then just ram Hector into his face and see what happened. If I really needed to I could get some boxes myself. If he left me an opening, I was going to fill it with Ajax.

Erik deployed his core behind the tail of the plane, leaving only the Shang Ji out to ARO. I think leaving your HMG out to ARO is pretty much always a mistake, especially on the first turn. With all the low vis and saturation zones, a HMG is going to get torn to shreds by all of Steel’s ODD. He scattered all his Guilang across the table, covering all three objectives with repeaters and one with a mine.

Shaolin came down on both sides to provide smoke for everyone, and then he just put his ‘bots down in a line on the middle to right of the table. The Son Bae just hid behind some trees in the back to rain missiles, screened by the Chaiyi and Long Ya. Now that I’ve seen most of his list, I know I need to kill the Son Bae to open the table up for myself. That basically turns off his Spotlight/Missile play. I can still get spotlit, but I care a lot less if it’s not accompanied by missiles.

I decide I’m going to dedicate my entire first turn to killing the Son Bae and whatever else I can on the way. I had originally planned on putting Ajax in the middle of the table to fill out the last slot of Phoenix’s link. Instead, I just put Ajax as far up my left table edge as he would go, and then covered the middle of the table and the my right table edge with the Agema missile. Specifically, it was watching the approach of the Shaolin there, as I know how dangerous direct templates can be to Steel.

Erik then dropped a Guilang Hacker in the way of Ajax, which I think was a mistake. It’s reactionary to a threat, and really it’s letting me trade Ajax for a midfield Specialist in the best case for Erik. He’s only got one non-Minelayer Guilang, I think he should’ve just committed to getting a box with that Guilang instead of trying to slow Ajax down… but I have the benefit of knowing exactly what happened in the game.

Turn 1

Top of 1 – Steel Phalanx

Erik docks me two orders, and then it’s off to the races. I decide that I’m 100% okay dumping my entire 11 orders into Ajax, and maybe I’ll use Acmon’s Tac Aware order to reposition the Hector link if necessary. My impetuous order sees me get into line of fire of camo token, which reveals itself as a Guilang Minelayer and shoots Ajax with a shotgun template. I tank the shotgun hit but the Guilang does not tank my return Nanopulsar fire.

The correct play here for Erik would have been to drop a repeater, which would have delayed Ajax’s advance until I rescued him with the Thorakites link. Acmon’s order would’ve made that a little more efficient, and I wanted to advance that link anyway, so I don’t think it’s as impactful as you might think, especially if you look the amount of orders I had left after Ajax’s rampage.

I kept pushing forward until I could see the aforementioned Guilang Hacker, the Chaiyi, and the Lu Duan. The Chaiyi flash pulses and the Lu Duan takes a shot. I figure I’ve got 50% odds on taking the Lu Duan’s shot if it hits, but I really don’t want to deal with getting flashed pulsed right now. Erik decides to not reveal the Guilang Hacker just yet, and I dump three burst into the Chayi as the it and the Lu Duan return fire. Thankfully for me, we all miss, and then I move again, successfully dodging past the Lu Duan’s line of fire while the Guilang Hacker does nothing.

At this point, I go prone and poke out to see the Chaiyi, Shaolin, Long Ya, and I still see the Guilang Hacker. Erik decides to give me all he’s got, dodging with the Shaolin, dropping a mine with the Lu Duan, flash pulsing with the Chaiyi, and throwing an Oblivion at me with the Guilang. I decide to go crazy and throw a die at everything. I really just want to get to the Son Bae, and I think this is my most reliable way of doing it. I could’ve been a lot more cautious, and this is really a high risk, high reward play. I don’t think this is a low variance play at all, and won’t consistently give you results.

That said, the Long Ya isn’t shooting at me, so I get a normal roll there. The Chaiyi is on -6 (low vis and my mimetism) and +3, so it’s on 10 versus my 4. The Shaolin is on 13’s versus my 16’s, and the Guilang is on 14’s versus my 10’s. The odds aren’t CRAZY bad, and I am ARM 5, BTS 6.

The Chaiyi and Ajax whiff on one another, but I hit the Long Ya, the Shaolin, and the Guilang and drop. all. three. OUCH. A quick burst of fire on the Chaiyi later kills it, although I do take a wound from the Long Ya’s AP mine. I would’ve made it to the Son Bae faster, but for all the terrain. I’m finally there, and I drop the Son Bae easily.

At this point I’ve got 3 orders and Acmon’s tac aware left (which I could’ve used to extricate Ajax from a repeater predicament). I throw Ajax in suppression because this is a nightmare realm where everything is already dead and why not kill everything else.

I figure board state as it is, I could stand Phoenix up. We determine that I can see the Shang Ji if I shuffle to the right some, so I do that. It’s then we realize the Shang Ji is on -12 (cover, mimetism -6, range, low vis, and then +3 from the link), and I’m on -9 thanks to range, low vis, and cover. Erik decides to dodge and rolls a 1. I roll a pair of 3’s and burn the Shang Ji down. What is HAPPENING with this turn!?

I spend my two remaining orders on the link (one of which is Acmon’s) and set up for a run on the left objective on Turn 2 as well as shots on the center objective with the Feuerbach.

Ajax alone has accounted for two Guilang, a Long Ya, a Shaolin, a Chaiyi, and a Son Bae. Phoenix didn’t want to be left out and just deleted Shang Jesus in one shot. Erik’s list now looks like this, and he hasn’t had a turn yet!

Rose city v2
GROUP 1 3

GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24)

GROUP 2 4 1 1

TIAN GǑU 1st Section (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
ZHANSHI (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
ZHANSHI (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)

SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 5)


2 SWC | 149 Points | Open in Infinity Army

For those of you keeping count, Ajax has killed 101 points by himself, with Phoenix killing 49. Shang Jesus! I’m obviously in an excellent position now. The primary area control mechanic Erik has been hoping to exploit is now (literally) offline, and I’ve done a pretty severe amount of damage to his order pool. I accomplished my primary objective and I can now easily go about getting classifieds and boxes on the second turn.

Bottom of 1 – White Banner

Erik takes it on the chin like a champ and just goes about his turn like this is all perfectly normal. After setting up smoke with his Shaolin, he starts off by shooting at Ajax with the Lu Duan, doing a wound and forcing me to break suppression and go into cover.

The Lu Duan then goes to challenge Phoenix. Phoenix is on 10’s because of range, cover, and low vis. The Lu Duan is on 3’s by comparison. I roll a crit, and Erik fails his saves.

At this point, Erik is ready to concede, seeing that his only specialists left are the Zhanshi Hackers and the Tian Gou I don’t know about, who has been masquerading as a Zhanshi. We talk it over for awhile, and we’re both pretty unhappy with the decision to push the Lu Duan around forward. In his mind, he’s pretty convinced that he needs to:

  1. Kill the Agema to free up his hackers to go get a box
  2. Kill Phoenix for the same reason.
  3. Kill Ajax because he’s SCARY.

I tell him he can’t do any of those things this turn effectively. There simply isn’t a reliable way to get a tool into position to reliably take out any of those threats. What’s more is that I cannot push with Ajax on my second turn, at least not without getting boxes first! I need to get points on the scoreboard, and if I table Erik with Ajax I’m not going to get any boxes or get my classifieds before he goes into retreat.

Depending on what tactical problem Erik presents me with, I may solve part of it with Ajax, but I’m not going to go on another rampage. It’s counter-productive at this point. What Erik needs to do is set up for a Turn 2 run on the boxes and a Turn 2 attack on Phoenix and the Agema. He’s absolutely on the back foot and is really playing to tie or get a 1 or 2 TP loss.

In a tournament game, I would be more than happy to let him lose the Lu Duan and have the turn basically go back to me without board state really changing much. I can easily secure 2/3 boxes, set myself up for a classified, and then bunker up and force Erik to come to me. This is a friendly game over pastries and coffee, so we rewind time!

If you don’t know what this is… don’t worry about it… or ask your parents.

I’d like to propose to the older folks who play Infinity that we reclaim the “Be Kind, Please Rewind” motto for games like this. If someone has an emotional reaction to such a devastating first turn and makes a reactive and suboptimal play, let them rewind time and explore a different, more measured approach. Erik’s an experienced enough hand to be able to operate in hypotheticals post game, but I think there’s real value to exploring the state space of a game once you actually take the more carefully considered branch/line of play. Just some food for thought.

Bottom of 1 – White Banner

We rewound to just after his Shaolin threw smoke. Erik was really concerned about Ajax still, so compromised on the following:

  1. Move both remaining Guilang into positions to put a mine on both the center and right (my perspective) consoles while shifting the Lu Duan into a position to cover Ajax, all with a coordinated order.
  2. Coordinate drop a mine, coordinate recamo.
  3. Cybermask the Tian Gou, set up for a run on the right console on the next turn.
  4. Throw suppression on the Lu Duan to fight Ajax.

This strategy does not risk anything except a discover, since Erik’s ending out of LoF on his first coordinated move. It keeps his order pool intact, and doesn’t cede midfield control. He’s got a mine and a repeater covering all the objectives now, and I have to deal with that now. It’s not insurmountable, but it definitely encourages me to go after the center and left objectives, leaving the right one for his Tian Gou.

Turn 2

Top of 2 – Steel Phalanx

I have Predator as a classified, so Ajax rolls CC on an unconscious trooper and gets me one of the kills I need. I continue by sniping the Lu Duan with the Thorakites Feuerbach. Not a disaster for Erik, as it’s draining my order pool.

I have to spend two orders clearing out the repeater on the top of the plane (I was shooting from the top of the nearby crates with Hector’s plasma rifle, I just didn’t want to move him back to take the picture).

All that shooting forced me to take two orders to get into position to see and detonate a mine with Hector thanks to having to stop when I touch the difficult terrain. I survive the mine unscathed, thankfully, at least.

I grab the box with my Thorakites Paramedic and settle Hector’s link into a defensive position with the Feuerbach covering the Zhanshi link if they decide to move forward. I don’t really have the orders to grab the central box, so I decide to try and damage some of Erik’s board control presence. I start by attempting a discover-shoot on the mine the Guilang dropped, but fail the discover with Phoenix. This would’ve been great because the template would’ve caught the Guilang! I also fail to shoot the repeater in plain sight on the “roof” of the destroyed plane fuselage nearby with Phoenix’s HRL.

I settle for dodge-clearing the mine with Phoenix and set up in cover.

Bottom of 2 – White Banner

Erik’s Tian Gou grabs the right most objective and goes into suppression.

The Guilang in the middle drops a repeater covering Hector and then shotguns Phoenix in the face using the slug mode of the shotgun (not template). I fail to dodge, but tank the save. I think template is stronger here because it catches the Myrmidon and I can fail some key rolls here!

Turn 3

Top of 3 – Steel Phalanx

Ajax grabs me the last of what I need for Predator.

I attempt to take the Guilang out with the Agema, but fail, and instead settle for clearing the remaining repeater with the Agema. I then dodge Phoenix into base to base with the Guilang…

and gank him with Phoenix.

I grab the middle objective with my Myrmidon Hacker, chain rifle down the Tian Gao, and steal its box with Phoenix, finally taking a wound from the mine laid by the right most Guilang.

Bottom of 3 – White Banner

Erik throws a Shaolin under the bus to try and take out Phoenix, but instead ends up dying to my Myrmidon’s chain rifle with no losses on my side.

The remaining Guilang takes out Phoenix. However, Erik is out of orders to go get the box.

The most he can do now is run the Zhanshi forward to try and take out my Myrmidon Hacker, who I haven’t been able to retreat entirely, but they have to get through Ajax and the Feuerbach Thorakites first… which they do not do.

After all that, it’s a

8-0 Steel Phalanx Victory!

Post Game Analysis

Well, that was an incredibly hard first turn to come back from for Erik. I got incredibly lucky with Ajax on that split burst, but as we saw, the dice odds weren’t ridiculous. Aside from the first order mistake of not dropping a repeater, I don’t think there were any serious misplays in his response to Ajax. Even if the repeater had gone down, I think the outcome would have been the same. I probably would have traded the Thorakites Paramedic to chain rifle everything.

It would’ve cost me the orders I spent to kill the Shang Ji, but I still would’ve had an advanced Hector link, just as I did in the way things actually played out. I also probably couldn’t have put Ajax in suppression, but that was ridiculous anyway. So the outcome of that would’ve been Shang Ji is alive, and I’m down a Thorakites. I think Erik could’ve saved himself the trouble by just not exposing the Shang Ji! That guarantees it being alive, so that deployment mistake was pretty impactful. Although I’m uncertain if the Shang Ji could have really effectively challenged Phoenix. The reduced burst for Pheonix might have been enough… who knows. In any case, it would have given Erik orders and some more options for sure.

We already talked about how three Guilang minelayers is too much for a mission that demands specialists in the midfield. I think given the situation Erik did the absolute best he could. He was basically at the point where he was about to bring me down to one box at the end of he game, with literally half of his stuff dead before he got a turn. Sure, we had to rewind time and really talk through some turns, but I think that was a really valuable exercise for both of us.

Even though this was a casual pastries and coffee game, it’s still important to treat it as a practice/learning game. By going through the execution on rewinding time and spending a good 10-15 minutes hemming and hawing about various options and debating the nuances, you can build fluency with that process. Eventually, you can do that during a game, under pressure.

One other thing I’d like to call attention to is my decision to just kill the Son Bae. Erik invested two Zhanshi Hackers, three Guilang Minelayer, and the Son Bae into this strategy. It’s a lot of work to kill all those models and the deployed repeater to make the midfield “safe.” It’s much easier to fire the muscle missile that is Ajax at the Son Bae and just take the whole strategy offline. I’m going to approach games like that more often and ask myself the question of “what can I do efficiently that will get the job done?”

Anyway, a huge thanks to Erik for being an amazing sport, a gracious opponent, and a wonderful friend. Looking forward to the next game! Here’s an excerpt of our text convo the following day:

Zelaponeepus:
“I think leaving your HMG out to ARO is pretty much always a mistake”

in general I think thats a safe rule of thumb. But i also think you have to draw a line *somewhere* to stop a hypothetical ajax rush. The problem here was that he was exposed to the midfield when I only thought he was cutting to the airplane wing

WiseKensai:
you didn’t know Ajax existed. what if i went after you with Phoenix, who you knew existed

Zelaponeepus:
“It’s reactionary to a threat, and really it’s letting me trade Ajax for a midfield Specialist in the best case for Erik”

this is so true. If Id dropped him left field then I coulda still focused on objective play AND he coulda leaned into the repeater (i should have placed) on the right flank with the zhanshi

Wanted to thank you for hosting though. Brutal game but a lot of fun. Really good to get reps on something so extreme. I need to mentally go to red alert when I see Ajax

WiseKensai:
I think going to red alert is a mistake too

(and you’re welcome, thanks for making the trip!)

like i think revealing any camo to him is a mistake

make me do stuff

Zelaponeepus:
Maybe true—but I needed to save that missile bot. Which means the essential problem is that the whole list depends on that bot (which we talked about)

Typically Id 100% agree. I never reveal a marker unless I have to

I think this whole exercise has been valuable—i leaned all the way into the missile bot and that let me digest just how powerful they are (for example I realized I had several opportunities to lean into it at RCR that I didnt really see).

Thinking about every problem as a missile bot/repeater net problem I think helped to imprint a bit of that for quick problem solving in the future. That said, just a dash of it is enough. I need to have other solutions—at the least so that the missile bot isnt an obvious/easy fix for my opponent

WiseKensai:
i disagree. you absolutely did not need to save the missile bot

imagine a different world, where you had not revealed either guilang or long ya, and one of the guilang on your left was an FO

Zelaponeepus:
I should clarify—in the mindset I had at the time, I needed to save the missile bot

I agree with you

I could have lost a lot less by accepting its death and being cagey

WiseKensai:
also, you’ll note that I had to kill both repeaters anyway!!

so really, my ajax attack was either Erik lets me have it, in which case I’m feeling pretty good, or he fights me and I do some damage.

it turns out that the dice said that i get to have my cake and eat it too!

Zelaponeepus:
Yeah, if anything the essential structural problem that the game reveals I need to develop shorthands for is “what do you do when you CANT stop something from going on a rampage”

Keep your head down and let them have their moment is probably the better shorthand

“Fight them” is making your job easier

WiseKensai:
i think a great example of what to do right was our game on the space table, where I dodged my Evader off a roof to avoid getting shot by your Azrael

WiseKensai:
i basically ceded board control and let you overextend for no real appreciable gain

Zelaponeepus:
Yeah, 100% agree with that. “Be like water,” basically.

Recede into the cracks when someone’s coming for you.

WiseKensai:
i think a similar thing could have happened here. i probably kill the shaolin, flash pulse, and missile bot

and then maybe something else. then you drop an AP mine with the long ya, and a repeater, and isolate me

or something. you get the idea

Zelaponeepus:
Yeah, if Id held everyone in camo, then you either spend orders digging them out, or I get to keep those orders and their kit in my turn

WiseKensai:
exactly. i probably leave ajax there to force you to deal with him, and then spend the extra 2-3 orders i saved developing my position

so at the start of turn 2, i have a strong tempo advantage, which is what I wanted, but you’re still in the game as opposed to what happened

Zelaponeepus:
The big thing here is that when you’re facing an unstoppable force (steel) you just have to accept that you’ll be on the back foot as far as the fight goes

If you’re fighting something more powerful and you choose to fight it on its turn, then you’re choosing to allow it to win

The way to beat steel is to change the terms of the exchange

“Thats cool, but I have all the objectives”

WiseKensai:
Here’s a game where I look really good doing that thing, lol:

Zelaponeepus:
theres another point about sectorial list building pitfalls too—which is that you gotta stop putting eggs in the basket. If a tool can do its job, then shift gears and develop a different one

WiseKensai:
yeah. definitely

Zelaponeepus:
Honestly—Im really thankful you’re bringing out steel.

Its so awful. But clearly there’s a lot to learn.

WiseKensai:
the beatings will continue until morale improves, haha!

Zelaponeepus:
Hahaha exactly

It’ll make me a lot better at this game though

I love it because initially I was demoralized and went to the list and was like “more msv?

WiseKensai:
the only things that died to Phoenix were a guilang in CC and a very unlucky roll on shang Jesus.

Ajax was a problem, sure, with his mimetism, but not really, it just equates to cover

Zelaponeepus:
But thats clearly not it—its about how you approach it

Its all tempo and rhythm and accepting difficult circumstances

And thats all stuff that’ll make you do REALLY well against a more “normal” faction

WiseKensai:
here definitely was a problem with your list and it was “too many guilang minelayers”

but other than that it was fine. i have a lot of tool preference differences, but your list is fine

Zelaponeepus:
Yeah—thats the “this is my one tool” thing

Yeah—I still like a bit of of guilang spam, but a part of learning how to leverage then is seeing them as more than just a way of landing the missile

like they’re amped up farzan

“Repeater or mine” is an insanely useful choice to be able to make

WiseKensai:
I’m getting way less impressed by mines these days

Zelaponeepus:
Agreed. Repeater is weighted a lot heavier by default I think

But its value is more than the missile. Being able to isolate and spotlight and gum up the works is just as useful

WiseKensai:
i agree, that’s very true.

the other thing you need to remember is that the lu duan has a deployable repeater so you can even go down to 1 guilang minelayer

and i think you should consider a ye mao engineer with bot, similar to your pano karhu builds.

Zelaponeepus:
I def see the case for this

That ye mao is honestly *better* in certain ways

WiseKensai:
if you’re going to run two attack remotes, it seems. worthwhile.

Zelaponeepus:
Switching one swc to let the long ya start with an ap mine isn’t small either

Then he can actually guard something effectively

WiseKensai:
yeah that’s not bad either

Zelaponeepus:
Was just thinking about how different that game would have been with this list:

Zelaponeepus:
Instead of a meaningless zhanshi blob on the left, there’s a blue wolf. Def changes the relevance of removing a missile bot

Then the repeaters can be used to spotlight to improve the tags odds against odd

Makes the question of who to rush a lot harder because either way there’s going to be a massive threat vector

And the wolf can just go pickup a box if he’s left alone

Put engineer on a jujak with a bot. Still has the PF, goes faster, ye mao hacker uses that BTS to do the hacking thing confidently on his own. 2x long ya minelayers lets me protect both wings

Bit of a vulnerable LT… but so it goes. Loss of LT is no worse than turn on yesterday haha

WiseKensai:
yeah that seems better, because there are no links…why not vanilla?

Zelaponeepus:
haha

You KNOW thats the end goal. But I dont have the minis to make that a meaningful choice atm so I might as well get that extra guilang/long ya ava

(Maybe long ya are ava 2 in vanilla too)

I DO look forward to adding a ninja KHD…

WiseKensai:
What about this?

Zelaponeepus:
Thats the fixed version of what I just took 100% haha

WiseKensai:
I try 🙂

Zelaponeepus:
Everything discussed today is really making me glad I just went for it and started yu jing

Been awhile since I felt like I was getting so much out of a single game

Thats paired with you playing steel of course

But Im feeling excited about infinity and thats exciting in and of itself

WiseKensai:
yeah I’m still very very meh about list building without constraints, and I really don’t like talking in general terms about games anymore

but i really, really enjoyed our game and our discussion surrounding it

WiseKensai

I primarily play Infinity and Heavy Gear nowadays, but I dabble in plenty of other game systems.

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